Zostavax Vaccine Side Effects May Cause Shingles Virus, Rather Than Prevent It

Austin Kirk

By Austin Kirk
Posted October 1, 2018

ADD YOUR COMMENTS 41

Side effects of Merck’s herpes zoster vaccine, known as Zostavax, may cause some patients to suffer recurring and severe shingles outbreaks, rather than preventing the infection. As a result of the failure to warn about this potential risk, Zostavax vaccine lawsuits are being reviewed by the lawyers at Saiontz & Kirk, P.A.

Zostavax vaccines are approved for the prevention of shingles among individuals over the age of 50. While the injection is supposed to contain a weakened state of the live virus, which is designed to only initiate the development of antibodies by the immune system, studies have confirmed that the live virus used was not weakened enough, and can reactivate years later.

Contact Our Lawyers About ZOSTAVAX SIDE EFFECTS

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Saiontz & Kirk, PA, Attorneys & Lawyers, Baltimore, MD

This may result in painful and debilitating cases of shingles. In addition to the normal side effects of shingles, which may result in painful rash and blisters, these outbreaks may result in a number of other symptoms, including:

  • Postherpetic Neuralgia
  • Scarring
  • Bacterial Superinfection
  • Allodynia
  • Cranial and Motor Palsies
  • Pneumonia
  • Encephalitis
  • Vision Loss
  • Hearing Loss
  • Death

Zostavax was developed with the use of a live varicella zoster virus (VZV), which is the same thing it uses in its chickenpox vaccine, Varivax. However, while Varivax contains a minimum of 1,350 plaque-forming units (PFUs), Zostavax contains a minimum of 19,400 PFUs.

According to findings of research published in the medical journal Nature Medicine six years before Zostavax was approved, researchers warned that if VZV is under-attenuated, meaning not weakened enough, it can reactivate later. In fact, shingles is actually what happens when dormant VZV reactivates naturally in the human body, meaning it can lie dormant for decades.

On top of the potential Zostavax risks due to an under-attenuated virus in Merck’s injections, clinical evaluations have found that Zostavax vaccine recipients are often injected with levels far, far higher than the minimum amounts of PFUs. In fact, more than 90% of those who get the Zostavax vaccine actually received about 32,300 PFUs.

Merck conducted two different studies, a Shingles Prevention Study in 2005, and a follow-up study in 2008, claiming it found no risk linked to the Zostavax vaccine. However, in 2015, an evaluation of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System found 1,111 serious adverse event reports linked to Zostavax, including 36 deaths. Three years later, in February of this year, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention added new warnings to the Zostavax vaccine, indicating that it could be linked to rashes and shingles outbreaks.

Zostavax Lawyers Provide Free Case Evaluations

The product liability lawyers at Saiontz & Kirk, P.A. are reviewing potential lawsuits for individuals who have experienced shingles problems that may be the result of Zostavax vaccine side effects. These outbreaks can be persistent, painful, and may be accompanied by other debilitating health issues.

It appears that Merck either failed to adequately study the vaccine, or may have misrepresented the safety and effectiveness of it to the public and federal regulators.

As a result, financial compensation may be available through a Zostavax side effects lawsuit. All cases are handled on a contingency fee basis, meaning there are never out-of-pocket expenses and no fees unless a recovery is obtained.

REQUEST A ZOSTAVAX CASE EVALUATION

41 Comments • Add Your Comments

  • Vicki says:

    I had not heard about this and almost got the vaccine, but Walgreen’s was out. I guess I will take my chances without it, instead of enriching big Pharma on more side effects.

    Posted on October 8, 2018 at 3:24 pm

  • Cynthia says:

    I had the Shingles Shot back in 2017!!!! I’m just now finding out of all the bad side effects. What can I do now? I’m scared and upset!!!

    Posted on November 3, 2018 at 1:23 pm

  • Linda says:

    Just got second shot. Never read about a problem. Heard 1st vacine was only 50% effective so I didn’t get it. This new one is suppose to be very effective. Would have not got it if I read this earlier. So far no problem just a very sore arm.

    Posted on November 6, 2018 at 1:26 pm

  • Elizabeth says:

    I’ve had 1 Zoster shot already. Now I’m. Scared to get the 2nd shot later on next month. What can I do?

    Posted on November 11, 2018 at 6:50 pm

  • Jo says:

    Not only did I have shingles after the vaccine in 2008 but I’ve now have psoriasis and MS. At times I’ve been so sick I could not function normally such as bathroom issues, vision, mental issues and being sick all of the time cost me a marriage and severe financial losses. My ex husband would say because he could not see something on the outside he felt I had become a drug seeker. At times the pain was so severe I had to go to the ER for morphine injections. I developed blisters under my breasts and spent 5 days in the hospital. All of this is documented my physicians in Lubbock, TX and the Denver, CO area.

    Posted on November 15, 2018 at 9:55 pm

  • Mary Louise says:

    I am a nurse . I got the vaccine so I would not compromise my elderly parents. However the next day I experienced severe pain and itching, sort of an “on fire feeling” that would not stop. The following day just got worse with rashes starting and pain increasing. This lasted for more than a month curtailing my daily living activities and ability to visit or care for my parents . I was not forwarned of this possibility..

    Posted on November 18, 2018 at 4:33 pm

  • Norma says:

    Yes! This is exactly what happened to me. Now I’m on meds for the rest of my life!

    Posted on November 29, 2018 at 8:45 am

  • PETER says:

    I worked at a hospital in Royal Park Michigan ,where they forced me to take the shot before I ever knew anything going on with the shot. in 20 16 0r 17 I came down with the shingles.Can i sue the hospital for making me take the shot??.
    I really didn`t want to take it. I was told I had to take it or lose my job, so I tookit.

    Posted on November 30, 2018 at 10:23 pm

  • Fausto says:

    I have the vaccine 4 months ago now I can not walk very good my knees hurt so much. And I afraid to take the second shot

    Posted on December 7, 2018 at 11:29 pm

  • MeShiel says:

    WOW had I been forewarned about this there is no way I would have gotten this shot. I had the Shingles the very first time last year, it was bad but then I saw pictures of people having it and those blisters and sores looks awful and painful. I had Just 3 little bumps on the left side of my breast they never blistered up, they were so painful I couldn’t wear a bra or shirt it was that painful. And my left side stayed numb for a long time. So finally it was over so this year in August I got another breakout this time 3 bumps that did crust over very painful at the bottom of my spine at my butt crack. So sore but no numbness and it went away kinda fast. Then in September I went to Albertsons grocery store and the pharmacy had a huge sign staying get your Shingles vaccines here this will prevent you from getting Shingles!!! So I thought wow i better Get this now I do not want to have that pain again!!! Ok so I got the 1st shot and suspose to get the second shot in January but hell no… Got the shot in September then on November 14 i woke Up with the most excruciating pains on my left lower back side where my kidneys are all I could think of was I must be trying to pass kidney stones never ever had them before but that’s what I was thinking i was On the floor crying I couldn’t move the pain only got worse and my 13 year old was crying trying to help me my mother also then I had to go pee bad I managed to slide myself to the bathroom and got up there and I did pee thinking i was going to pass a stone but nothing I dranked so much water and it kinda eased up, then I noticed that my left leg was numb then those pains moved down my leg swelling sore hot to the touch sharp stabbing prickly pains!!!! So my mom called the ambulance and they took me to the hospital San Antonio in Upland, I didn’t think of the Shingles because no rash or bumps. I told them about the excruciating pains and that my kidneys hurt so they did a cat scan came back that my kidneys are fine I must have sprung a back muscle. Sent me home, still in excruciating stabbing nerve pains, so I went to a different hospital emergency room they checked for blood clots in my legs and lungs. All clear, so 22 days later still in excruciating stabbing pains and left thigh is numb!!!! Then i remembered the medication I had for The Shingles since i began To think this is what it is. So I took that medication and it helps with the pain so I finally got in to see my primary doctor she said yes it’s Shingles but the rash is on the inside!!! Now I’m worried what damage has it done to my kidneys!!!! So now I have to wait to see a neurologist to see what damage I have my Thigh is still numb pains and I’m just exhausted. I feel had I not gotten that Shingles vaccine this wouldn’t have happened to me!!!! This is the most horrible disease anyone could have and to now know that by having that shot made it worse even brought it on!!!

    Posted on December 12, 2018 at 1:52 pm

  • Pamela says:

    Had a shingles shot..within in 2 years …I had shingles, I was told by the Pharmacy…I NEEDED ANOTHER SHOT!!! I Am now blurred all the time and other problems..Do not feel the same…

    Posted on December 12, 2018 at 6:02 pm

  • Kay says:

    I have had the first shot on Oct 1,2018 , was told to take the 2nd shot in 2-3 months, after reading about the danger of the shots, should I take the 2nd One?
    Who do I contact for an answer to my question?

    Posted on December 15, 2018 at 3:54 pm

  • Sue says:

    Got the vaccine Oct 4, been sick for 2 months…muscle weakness, couldn’t sit up long enough to drink cup coffee, legs weak, couldn’t walk dog, had to rehoming him. Got URI two weeks after, on be dress 3 weeks. Had first vaccine at age 65 had shingles last year so got first dose of new vaccine, will not get second dose.

    Posted on December 20, 2018 at 11:50 am

  • VALERIE says:

    Got a rash and I seem to fall ALOT

    Posted on December 20, 2018 at 11:00 pm

  • Leanne says:

    To those of you who have had the first of two injections for Shingles please know that the vaccine you are getting is NOT Zostavax! It is the new formula called Shingrix. While the Zostavax is in fact a “live virus” vaccine, Shingrix is not! It is important to know the difference. My mom has had 2 episodes of Shingles since she received her Zostavax vaccination, leaving her in excruciating pain down her left leg. Walking is extremely difficult for her now and she needs to use a cane for support inasmuch as she is 83 and fears falling. My research was extensive in that I too was advised by my Primary Care Physician to be vaccinated. I searched reports starting with the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins University and various medical publications. As with ANY medication, there stands the risk for potentially serious side effects. My advice to you all is to discuss your concerns with your Doctor. Write down your questions prior to your appointment so that you do not miss any issues that you may have concerns about. I have a genetic auto immune disorder and I have in fact had my first of 2 injections for Shingrix. Other than a mild sore arm, I tolerated it very well. The most common side effect of the Shingrix vaccine is of course the sore arm. This because the solution being injected must be extremely cold. The other common side effect is that of flu like symptoms which will pass in 3 to 4 days. After reading the comments from those of you who have had the first of 2 injections and have experienced some serious side effects, you should report this to your Doctor and ask if they can assist you with the reporting process to the FDA and CDC. Sooner rather than later so that we as patients can assist the medical community in getting ahead of the problem. Had more patients known that there was a way to report this very serious issue with the Zostavax vaccine early on, so many people would not have been at risk. Thank you for allowing me to share this with you and remember, you are going to have to be your own advocate in your medical care.

    Posted on December 29, 2018 at 5:20 pm

  • Robert says:

    I had a shingles shot back several years ago at Walgreens. My insurance would not pay so I had to pay. Very expensive.
    I had shingles breakout and my doctor gave me a prescription. The pain stopped after a little more than a year and now periodically I have nerve pains and continue to take my medicine as needed.

    Posted on December 30, 2018 at 9:57 pm

  • Sandy says:

    I have shingles and I burn and do not have the energy to go into the store. I have a balance problem and now a neurological issue. I received the shot and I saw the side affects that occurred after that shot. No doctor can tell me why I am going through the downward spiral of bad health. Now that I have had unexplained low temperatures 94.8 , and unexplained prolapsed symptoms, and numerous other physical problems I will find this shot as the reason the doctor cannot explain my odd illnesses.

    Posted on January 7, 2019 at 2:23 am

  • Elizabeth says:

    I had the shot but now I am scared I am going to get the shingles. I am on the list to receive another shot. They say that it does not have the live virus. Not knowing whether to take it. Is this the FDA’s way of a cover up?

    Posted on January 13, 2019 at 12:44 pm

  • Georgia says:

    I took the first shot in 2018 I have noticed my eye site has gotten really bad stomach problems weakness in hands and legs feel nervous all the time and so quick to fire back at my love ones been having alot of other problems was just wondering if the first shot has alot to do with these problems my dr is the one who had me to get it and also alot of headaches I will not take the last shot no matter what havent told my dr which he will deny to each of you my prayers goes up for you God bless

    Posted on January 30, 2019 at 10:09 pm

  • Judy says:

    I Received the Shingles vaccine in late 2010 & it was either 2011 or 2012 I had a painful outbreak of Shingles. I was seeing a dermatologist for another skin issue & I told him about the area that was so painful & he did a culture & within a few days it came back as Shingles (Herpes Zoster). They got me started on medication by mouth & a cream, but it took quite a while to heal. Since that time I have had 3 more outbreaks that are larger areas and the last one wrapping around from my back to my stomach area. It is so painful! My back pain has been so bad that I was thinking of getting a spinal injection, but now I am not sure if my spine issues are causing this debilitating pain or is it heretic neuralgia in combination. My Dermatologist was baffled why I would get this so often & ran tests for auto immune conditions. One test was high & then they came back normal. It’s very frustrating, painful & I also have Rosacea now also, but no Lupus. Very swollen knees, shortness of breath, but not pneumonia or other issues. Went through all kinds of cardiac tests, but nothing showed, but still have shortness of breath. I also in the past year, have had cognitive issues at times & hearing has gotten worse. I am just getting rid of another outbreak & it was so painful that I could not lie on my right side where it has always been. This time it was in the outer part of my right ear. I have had other skin issues of unknown origin. Dr has tried multiple meds that do not help. I just read about the vaccine could be causing all of these problems. I am so upset as my back is scarred badly & many Dr’s I am sure that didn’t test it like the first Dr did, think I am a nut job! But you can’t deny what is on your skin. Thank God, I had my daughter take pictures of it. Once I went on Medicare, they won’t pay for both medications for Shingles & that’s what really helps the most. They are very expensive meds. After the first time I would get the pills & but a cream they sell over the counter, that kind of helps. I had a skin break out that looks like a rash & gets painful, crusty, oozes & takes weeks to go away. The Dr swore I burned my neck with a curling iron!! Unbelievable because I don’t use one! I told him that & it’s like it didn’t matter! It’s too coincidental that all of a sudden I have all these skin & painful nerve issues happening. I am sorry, but the Drug company must not have notified the Dr’s who gave these vaccinations or they would have been aware. I was even sent to an immunologist & she couldn’t figure out why this was happening. I am beside myself & so upset that we were not warned or helped out in any way. I told my Dr just recently that I am more depressed & just don’t want to socialize as I did, has this affected my brain in some way? I don’t know, but hope there is a way for us to find out. Now, I am afraid to take the new vaccine, even though the immunologist recommended it since I got Shingles after the old vaccine. She said the new one is supposed to be much more effective. How do we know that & was this new one tested long enough. I am very fearful of taking another vaccine. I need more proof this time & to know if anyone has had any side effects other than a sore arm or just flu like symptoms for a few days. I just remembered another mystery pain that is excruciating at times is pain on the right side of my stomach up under my right rib cage that no Dr can figure out. There is also a rash there that comes & goes frequently. This whole mess from a vaccine that’s supposed to help you, not hurt you!

    Posted on February 4, 2019 at 6:03 pm

  • Olena says:

    I had shingles on the side of my back. My Doctor said that I can get vaccine for shingles, but I have to wait 2 years. After 2 years, I got vaccine, and my health problems become like a snowball. I was diagnosed with migraine, encephalopathy, fibromyalgia, hearing loss, vertigo. I still trying to figure out what wrong with me and I still have no medication to help me deal with pain and discomfort I have been experiencing.

    Posted on February 13, 2019 at 7:10 am

  • Kristine says:

    Many of these people talk about getting the second shot. That is not this vaccine that they are talking about. The new one Shingrix is the one where you have two shots. The one in this lawsuit was only a single shot. AND I am suffering from shingles right now….a little over two years since getting the vaccine.

    Posted on February 16, 2019 at 3:15 pm

  • Beverly says:

    I had the Zostavax vaccine in 2015. I continued to get shingles. I also took the Shingrex vaccine thinking the 2 shot combo would prevent the shingles once again. I was so excited to not deal with this problem. It was just the opposite. I had breakouts 10 times in 2018. Many more than I had to begin with. Not to mention running a temp. a severe headache, being sick to my stomach & unable to eat prior to the episodes. I’m now on a daily suppressant prescription, probably the rest of my life .

    Posted on February 17, 2019 at 12:26 pm

  • Patti says:

    After the blisters on my ankles and arms brust they turned into dark spots. I still have them on my skin.

    Posted on February 17, 2019 at 8:31 pm

  • randy says:

    I got the shingles vaccine 10 -17 ive had 5 shingles outbreaks so far I thought the first outbreak was gona kill meive had to take acyclovir 800 mg 3 times so far took it5 times a day for 10 days

    Posted on February 23, 2019 at 3:05 pm

  • Benjamin says:

    I received the vaccine at the VA hospital in Madison, Wisconsin back about 5 years ago. 3 year’s ago it started with rashes on my ribs. This winter it came on full blast on my legs. I’ve been feeling energy-less with many other side effects that are to long to list. I’m 69 years old and feel like I’m 105. It’s horrible…And I bet there’s nothing the doctor can do?

    Posted on February 25, 2019 at 10:42 am

  • Diane says:

    I concur with Leanne above comment. The current shingles shots are NOT the Zostavax. The older shot had live vaccine. The new one Shingrix does not. I had shingles on the right side of my head. Now have small scars where the blisters were, recurring headaches, burning, itching, stinging type pain. Plus some decreased vision in my right eye–had it on right side of forehead. Pretty well controlled with 600 mg of gabapentin every 5 hours along with two ibuprophen OTC. I recommend getting the new two shot series. If I could I would, but doctor says no. Everyone is different.

    Posted on February 28, 2019 at 12:04 pm

  • Stacey says:

    I contacted a lawyer when I first devolped the problem and at that time they were not dealing with the issues that I experienced so I just dropped it BUT my immune system attacked my skin and at the time the Dr I first saw mis diagnosed as alot of different things. But I have been to iowa city and have many different treatments…i tried to tell them about just having the shot and they just acted like that could not have been what it was. Still I have issues… I have photos and a Dr that first saw put it the notes that I told them about just having the shot… He made it clear that I hundred of sores like marks on my body. But at that time it was diagnosed as a drug reaction and or bug bites… which started the path all the issues. By the time I got a second Dr to tell me that I did not have bugs.. they still could not make it clear that it was because of shot. But I am sure of it. And I think I enough proof that something happened to my body within about 30 days of that shot that changed my life… I have so many picture of my legs that got sores and infection swelling and on and on

    Posted on March 4, 2019 at 8:59 am

  • Renee says:

    After I took the shot I started having blisters on my face they are very painful they have left many scars on my face it fills like the blisters are wrapped around the nerves I never had acme as a kid I’ve been to doctors an all they can say is it is some kind of infection but nothing they give me helps

    Posted on March 6, 2019 at 8:37 pm

  • Dorothy says:

    I had the Zostavac shingle shot a few years ago, and recently came down with the shingles. Very painful outbreak, still recuperating.

    Posted on March 9, 2019 at 6:48 pm

  • Starlene says:

    i got the first shot and was fine. Got the second part and was extremely sick for two weeks afterwards. I told the pharmacist I was ill…he just stared at me. I went to the hospital, they said maybe flu. No, it started making me sick that evening. I have a blistering area on my back just above the crack.. I got chicken pox at the age of 35. My son gave it to me.

    Posted on March 9, 2019 at 11:07 pm

  • Josephine says:

    I had the shingles vaccine when my husband was fighting lung cancer since Dr said under stress could cause shingles.
    Since I developed Chronic kidney disease, essential Tremors and Cardiac problems.
    Last visit to my Primary he told me there is a new vaccine out. No way will I take another. I am 86 and will take my chances.

    Posted on March 17, 2019 at 2:37 pm

  • Vicki says:

    Had the shingles shot in 2014 and am presently suffering shingles pain and disruption of my life for 7-8 weeks know. Painful is an understatement. Egads, and to think this can recur at any time!

    Posted on April 14, 2019 at 9:14 am

  • Theora says:

    I got the injection and now have a sore spot on my side but it hurts inside worse and my vision got bad. Off balance, fall alot just feel tired all the time. Iam on valcore about 2-3 times a year when it become viral

    Posted on April 24, 2019 at 9:02 pm

  • June says:

    I had Zostavax vaccine a few years ago(2015 or 2016)
    I got shingles 8/2018
    I had been eating a lot of Nuts high in Arginine and not taking enough Lysine to balance the Arginine which is an amino acid reported to support the replication of the herpes virus
    So in a way I think I actually may have caused the outbreak
    I was 83 at the time of the outbreak which was on my right eyelid and hairline on right side
    I used topical CBD OIL WITH THC that a friend had brought from Colorado
    Plus a week of Valacyclovir(Valtrex)
    My eyelid healed and I got no scarring, some post herpetic neuralgia which is gone now 9 months later
    I am nervous about getting the Shingrix Vaccine
    I am careful to take lysine if I eat nuts or chocolate

    Posted on April 25, 2019 at 3:42 pm

  • Lisa says:

    I had the Zostavax vaccine several years ago. I didn’t have any trouble until I had the first of the new vaccines Dec of 2018. By the first week of January 2019 I began to have terrible back pain and blurry vision. Mid February 2019 I finally broke out with shingles on the right side of my torso from spine to midway in the front. The shingles were painful, but the nerve pain before and and after are nearly debilitating. I am unable to wear a bra, can’t sleep at night because of pain, have been talking gabapentin and ibuprofen or Tylenol regularly. I am immunocompromised due to the loss of my spleen because of lymphoma. I would love to have a crack at the manufacturers of these vaccines. They are making a ton of money and so many are left to suffer from the result of the vaccine. I don’t believe that Shingrix is without issues. I have heard too many horror stories and feel like I am living one myself.

    Posted on April 25, 2019 at 5:29 pm

  • Barbara says:

    Yes I had the shot in 2006 following after I had shingles and having problems since I broke out with rashes not knowing why off and on with rashes blisters off and on with said that they would not shingles but now that I think about it I have been having shingles since I got that first shot now here it is 2019 and I am broke out again which shingles this time they are very painful rancho broke out on my left side filing revive bad headaches nauseated had to go to the ER room painful in my stomach around my waist this time these shingles are worse than they ever were before so I don’t know what I can do I am sturdy breaking out with shingles and I am 59 first shingles came out when I was 43 and following after if I knew this was going to happen I never would have took the first shot so I am sitting now with shingles and very painful missing work off and on going to work taking Tylenol 3 they gave me morphine at the ER that was the only thing to stop the pain now I have to take to two Tylenol 3 to stop the pain sometime twice a day sometime I even take 800 ibuprofen just to try to stop the pain soon I hope I will get over this

    Posted on April 26, 2019 at 8:41 pm

  • Hope says:

    I received Zostavax in January 2017. Everything went fine, no health issues. I’ve always been very healthy. In June 2017 I was taken to ER by my children due to be unresponsive. Within 3 hours I had to have emergency surgery. 1 doctor stated he thought I had necrotizing fasciitis but later I was told no. All that the 20 specialists could come up with was that I had a bacterial superinfection. I had numerous blisters which they stated was herpes. I was hospitalized for 3 weeks, had 2 emergency surgeries, lost 30lbs, which to many doesn’t seem like too much but I started at 98lbs., and lost lymph nodes, muscle, & other tissue due to those 2 surgeries.
    I now have shooting pains to my spine, chest, legs & a recurring rash to my lower legs, neck, hands, back & chest. Could this be due to the Zostavax?

    Posted on April 27, 2019 at 6:56 pm

  • Terry says:

    I have had a rash on my legs off and on since I had my first dose of the shingles vaccine. I have had 2 doses 1 yr apart. 2015-16 to 2017.

    Posted on May 16, 2019 at 10:49 pm

  • Julius says:

    I contracted Shingles on December the 8th 2017 a day i will always remember and wouldn’t wish it on anybody i have it on my ribs and back just scars but very painful and this been going on for over a year and a half and still have a lot of pain i am a retired vet and my primary doctor can’t tell me how long I’m going to continue to have this pain have been prescribed a lot of pain medication but none seem to help when I first got it it was so bad I was thinking about committing suicide and believe me this is what I’m going through

    Posted on June 5, 2019 at 10:37 am

  • Claire says:

    Well, this is my experience with a vaccine for shingles.
    I had excruciating pain from shingles then a couple of years later I had shingles again. I was given a shot to ease the pain. The doctor told me after all blisters were well for one year then I could get a vaccine (do not know the name), The day after a year I went to a pharmacy and signed a paper that I had not had anymore pain or blisters from shingles. That has been at least 15 years and have been so thankful.
    After reading all these reviews, you may not want to read mine.

    Posted on October 29, 2019 at 9:45 pm

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